Cross-linked reference site

[victor]

Hi all,

let this message serve to introduce me to visitors of this site.

I've read many of Michael's books and have yet to read many more. Often, I find myself turning back pages to confirm impressions I get as I advance through the history, and there are times that the passages I'm looking are on other books.

There's also times when reading a book, other stories I have read previously make more sense. This is part of the richness of Michael's stories and of the multiverse as I see it. However, there are times when I can't remember who is certain character, if he/she is the same persona as other, or I'm merely confused.

I've entertained the idea, for some time, of creating a cross-linked reference of the people and places of the Multiverse, and to see it grow slowly as I re-read the books and complete it. That way, when I read about certain character, I could be sure whether this character is related or not to some other. I thought later that this reference could be shared on the web so that others could benefit from it (and, perhaps, clarify some concepts, enhance it, or discuss it). But then, I'd be in muddy waters with respect to the use of the characters names in my website.

So I ask before hand, would it be okay to create such a site? Can I have Michael Moorcock's permission to start it? And, what kind of disclaimer should I put on the website? If not, I'd create it merely for my personal use, but then I'd probably lack the stimulus to keep it updated.

I work with publishers and editors and know that they are rather touchy with respect to copyrights and things like that. That's why I seek my soul's peace asking first ;)

[dlackey]

That sounds like it would be a cool resource to have. There are any number of bibliographies floating around on the net, but an actual reference or concordance type of thing would be handy. Click on the name Gaynor, for example, and reference all of his appearances. Between everybody on this forum, we could probably help fill in any of the gaps. With Mr. M's permission of course. Sounds like a great idea!

[L'Etranger]

Very good idea! We'd all chip in our knowledge. Could also be extented eventually to places recurring in M's books.
Seria un fuente maravilloso para todos!

Cheers, L'Etranger

[Michael Moorcock]

It would be a big help to me, too! I'm all for it. :D

[Whiskers]

The old web site had The Eternal Champion Concordance, but I forgot who wrote it, but they let me post it at the site. The problem was that it was difficult to update. I've spent time investigating wiki. Wiki is an Encylopedia that is "open" to the public. Anyone can edit, update or manage it. That could get crazy, but it is proving to be very popular. And I like it. I've spent the last 3 days researching wiki, coincidentally.

There doesn't exist a wiki portal module, so I'm left to write one. I don't have time for that. But I will happily put up an Moorock Wiki, and you people could begin the amazing process of fleshing it out. It'll take me about 2 hours. I'll do that sometime this weekend.

[dlackey]

If you just tell us how we can go in and update info, I'd be glad to help on it whenever I have a little free time and all the books in front of me.

[Whiskers]

I'll have that up, hopefully, in the next few days. Then everyone can dogpile it. You'll know it's up and running when a wiki link appears and I make a general announcement.

Warning: wiki editing has a reputation for being addictive.

[victor]

I am at a lack of words for expressing what I feel right now.
While I don't lack the resources for starting a Wiki just by snapping my fingers, I wanted to do something a bit more ellaborated, which I am unable to do instantly because it requires some time extending the software for doing so. I thought that, meanwhile, I could test the waters.

While I'm all in favor of the idea of friendly competition as a driving force to keep getting better, I refuse starting my site on my own account just because that would only dillute the community's efforts and their contributions would be unable to sustain both sites, much less if common sense dictates people would stick to the site they already know.

So much for the momentum I appeared to have gathered.
Next time I nurture an idea for years, I will be very careful not to disclose it so carelessly.

Forgive me if this sounds bitter. I have no ill will towards the patrons of this site, it's just that I felt the need to explain myself before being just a lurker again.

Who knows? I might even do it anyway, if only just for me. Or for the benefit of Spanish readers. But I don't want to decide it right now, it wouldn't be wise.

[Whiskers]

Oooops.

As I said, a cross-referenced site already exists, it's the Eternal Champion Concordance. It just happens to be down right now and it was created in or around 1995. Isn't competition a good thing? A cross reference of two cross referenced sites can validate both. The cross cross reference occuring at Google and other search engines. Besides, many of Moorcock ideas are in Wikipedia already. The Internet is a huge cross reference of the Michael's stuff anyway.

Besides, do we have to compete? Can't we collaborate? Be a community? We could use your help.

[kard]

i agree on the idea to further enlarge and crosslink the Wikipedia resources. they are awesome. there are still plenty of entries to be edited (most books, in fact.)

of course an independend reference that purely focuses on anything multiversal would be interesting. maybe it would be possible to do this in direct connection with this page? is this what you are working out Berry?

so, multiversal experts! to work :D

[Whiskers]

The Chronicles of the Black Sword

I've posted the page that we hosted here at multiverse.org for all those years. The page is HUGE and the cross-references don't work. The page won't be repaired, but everyone can see we have a lot of source material we can begin with. There's a lot of transcribing to do.

Regarding wiki. I have decided, based on the difficulty of setting one up, the lack of support by the community and the sake of portability and integration, to use portal's Encyclopedia module. Unfortunately, it means that public editing isn't possible. That's one of wiki's main features.

I spent about 6 hours over the last 3 days and concluded that it will be very difficult for a wiki to be managed at the system administration level, where in the future, if we have to move to a new ISP, it could be impossible to rescue our work. But if it falls within the confines of moving this portal install from one ISP to the next, the task will be easy.

I have invited an editor who'll be in charge of recruiting those who wish to help out and we'll invite them as theme editors, so everyone who wants to help can. I'll announce the editor after he and I agree that the interface is usable.

Watch this space: I have a few things to set up.

Here's that link:

[broken link]

of course an independend reference that purely focuses on anything multiversal would be interesting. maybe it would be possible to do this in direct connection with this page? is this what you are working out Berry?

[dlackey]

I think that Robin Furth's "The Dark Tower Concordance" will be a handy guide for how to set the whole thing up. I'm thinking a breakdown like this:

Incarnations of the Champion (elric, erkeose, etc.)
Companions to the Champion (meaning friends, lovers, Moonglum, Jhary A Conel, etc.)
Enemies of the Balance (gaynor, theleb karna, etc.)
Kings, Commoners and the Rest of the Cast (characters who don't fit into any of the other categories)
Lords of the Higher Realms (Arioch, Donblas, etc.)
Demons And Elementals (ward pact demon, Straasha, etc.)
The Planes of the Existance (places in the Multiverse, las cascadas, sporting club square, the Five planes, Melnibone, etc.)
The Game of Time (concepts related to the Multiverse like the Cosmic balance, order, chaos, etc.)
Of Swords, Cups and Staves (various weapons of the Champion, incarnations of the holy grail, flame lances, weaponry etc.)


That's just a rought sketch of what i'm thinking. Easily accesible sections, all cross referenced of course.

We also have to come up with a standard for which editions we are going to use for page number references, which could be a nightmare. I am two books short of having all 15 omnibus books, which would be the ideal way to reference I think. I don't know about others. For the books not in the Omnibus, like the Cornelius quartet, we'll have to all agree on a certain edition. I don't even have my copy of the Cornelius books anymore. Neither do I own the Pyat books, nor the Karl Glogauer books. I got all those from the library. And then we have to decide how much of that we want in, or if we want to just stick to the Omnibus editions for now.

Lots of things to consider.