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  #1  
Old 09-15-2005, 02:50 AM
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Default Grant Morrison

Okay, I know we're meant to be 'grr' in terms of Grant Morrison's work. But does anyone actually like any of his work? I recently picked up the two collections of his Doom Patrol run and it's really good stuff...Also, personal confession, I never discovered Mike until I'd read the Gideon Stargrave 'swag' in The Invisibles.
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Old 09-15-2005, 03:27 AM
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I always used to enjoy Zenith, when I were a nipper... but I read a new story recently and it was very poor, in a sort of sub-JC sort of way. I have all of The Invisibles g/novels and got very in to them at the time, but it all sort of unravelled towards the end. "But that's the point!", some would argue, which is all fine and dandy but it doesn't butter my toast.

I also hadn't read any of the JC books until after "Stargrave", although I did have the Bastable and End of Time books.

I'm not really observant enough to unpick how much of a "debt" he owes to Mike, and I certainly wouldn't make any snide comments if I ever bumped in to the chap, but many believe there's a case to answer.

Ooh, Kill You Boyfriend was very good too... was that him?
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Old 09-15-2005, 04:31 AM
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Grant Morrison has done some great stuff in the past and still pulls off the odd corker today still. let's see what I can remember of his work:

Zenith - one of the all-time great comic-strips from 2000AD. I remember the thrill of reading each installment of Book 3 as it came out each week was definitely zarjaz! :)

St Swithin's Day was nice - and it upset the Tories which is always a good thing. :)

Animal Man owes a huge debt to Alan Moore's revisionist interpretation of Swamp Thing (ie without ST there would have been no AM) but is no less worthwhile for that. Those first 26 issues still stand head and shoulders above anything that came afterwards.

Doom Patrol is top-notch stuff in my book - the Scissormen, Red Jack, the Brotherhood of Dada - fantastic!

Arkham Ayslum - ooh kids, comics can be dark, nasty, and expensive. Nice artwork from Dave McKean saves the day. Not as important now as it seemed at the time.

Sebastian O - I liked this one but obviously influenced by Oscar Wilde and steampunk in general. Would liked to have seen more but it was not to be.

New Adventures of Hitler - the sort of stuff that GM did well when he still had something to say. And didn't it get banned initially as well?

Skull Kill Krew - Silly stuff and therefore quite fun.

Aztek (co-written with Mark Miller) - rather unmemorable now really.

The Invisibles - irrespective of his beef with Mike (or rather Mike's beef with him) this was when Morrison started believing his own hype and disappeared up his own arse imo. Book 1 was pretty cool, but with Books 2 & 3 you rather felt that it was all becoming a little forced. IIRC the artwork was a little hit-and-miss which I find affects my enjoyment of any comic although there were some good artists during its runs. That said, it still sits on my shelf rather than in the cupboard and probably merits a re-read one of these days.

Flex Mentallo was fun, and Frank Quitely's art is easy on the eye.

JLA Morrison back on form after the 'curate's egg' that was The Invisibles - possibly one of the definitive depictions of the Batman can be found within its pages - and he brought Plastic Man back. :D

Marvel Boy - Still waiting for the sequel. Unless it came out and I missed it. :x

The Filth - more weirdness for weirdness' sake. This sort of thing can be quite good, but doesn't necesasarily make for a reader-friendly book that you want to return to again and again as in the case of Animal Man, say.

We3 - cybernetically augmented animals that kill in really cool and gratuitously violent ways. Excellent!

At one point I used to buy everything that GM used to do, but after The Invisibles and The Filth I've become more selective. For instance, I went with Peter Milligan's X-Force/X-Statix rather than Morrision's New X-Men when they were both revamped, and I've no interest in his current Seven Soldiers series (too many comics to collect concurrently for one thing). Mind you, I find that's also my response to Neil Gaiman and Garth Ennis these days. About the only two comics writers who stuff I always try and buy now are Alan Moore and Howard Chaykin (and in Chaykin's case then only when he's drawing as well).
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_"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
_For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
_And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
_He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."
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Old 09-15-2005, 05:35 AM
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Morrison's Doom Patrol is my favourite comic run of all time; there's not a bad issue in my opinion. His other stuff tends to be rather patchy, but every now and then it hits the spot. 'The Coyote Gospel' in Animal Man is nothing short of brilliant.
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  #5  
Old 09-16-2005, 10:48 PM
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I've never much cared for Grant Morrison's writing, to tell you the truth. Arkham Aslyum was interesting when it first came out, nicely painted by Mckean, but it seemed to have gotten lost near the end, but I guess a GN about insanity should do that ;)

JLA: Earth 2 is terribly, terrible with only Queitly's unique artwork saving it. This was one of the first so-called wide screen comics, and desperately needs captions. "and see, they are bad people because they do drugs, have lots of sex, smoke, drink, and enjoy fetishes while oppressing the populance." Highly over rated.

Animal Man was interesting.

I tried to like Doom Patrol, but the artwok by case was horrendous. Veritgo tends to find the worst artists for their books for some reason. I thought it was Vince Colletta inked by Giella until I realized they were both dead.

I've come around a bit. I enjoyed the perversity and sub-text of Marvel Boy (and no, they will never be a sequel, as promised, since Marvel Comics pissed GM off during his X-men run, chasing him back to DC for good). When I heard about 7 Soldiers, I was intrigued by Klarion the Witch Boy, and have been enjoying the hell out of it. Irving Frasier's artwork and coloring are wonderful, and GM is now in his Alan Moore Supreme phase of enjoying himself with this concept.

I still don't like his work as much as I do Alan Moore's, but I'm more likely to give it a shot than I used to be.

Jeff
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Old 09-17-2005, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Doom
JLA: Earth 2 is terribly, terrible with only Queitly's unique artwork saving it.
I know what you mean. Luckily I picked it up cheap s/hand, because as soon as I started reading it I felt like it was a diluted, poorer cousin of the Marshal Law comics. I know that GM was just trying to create "evil twins" for the JLA, but to me it came across as a faint echo of a much better comic.

Then again, I'm a fan of Giffen-era JLA, which I'm sure most long-term readers think of as a bad joke. So it may just be sour grapes on my part.
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Old 10-03-2005, 12:15 PM
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While Vinemarama was bursting with plenty of good ideas. The entire comic did come off with me feeling rather 'was that it?'

Although, Seaguy is pretty good.
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Old 10-12-2005, 04:26 PM
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Some stuff good, some bad. Must admit I'm not literate enough (as in having read the books in question, not as in inability to read and ingest massive quantities) to comment upon MM's dislike of GM, and merely note the point. (As opposed to Warren Ellis, who freely notes the derivations and often "footnotes" the credits in things like signs in panels reading 'Morrcock Street' and such.)

After all, the whole field of quantum physics owes Mike a debt for the multiverse concept fleshed out.

And besides, I think we oughts call it the Miqqueverse.
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Old 11-03-2005, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
JLA: Earth 2 is terribly, terrible with only Queitly's unique artwork saving it. This was one of the first so-called wide screen comics, and desperately needs captions. "and see, they are bad people because they do drugs, have lots of sex, smoke, drink, and enjoy fetishes while oppressing the populance." Highly over rated.
Really? You think so? I love it!

I'm not familiar with Mike Moorcock's views on Grant Morrison. Why does Mike slag on Grant Morrison? I would be interested in reading his criticism. I like Tolkein, but Moorcock's critical essay, Epic Pooh was a laugh riot.

Yep. I mostly like Grant Morrison. Didn't like The Filth. That was dreadful.
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Old 11-03-2005, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradi
I'm not familiar with Mike Moorcock's views on Grant Morrison. Why does Mike slag on Grant Morrison? I would be interested in reading his criticism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by On June 12, 2003 Michael Moorcock
"Grant Morrison pinched chunks of Jerry Cornelius whole. Apparently he admits that he does this from others. So that's why I say he's a thief. I don't mind my stuff being taken up and run with, as it were, as Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman, who say that's what they do. But I don't think much of people who just pinch stuff."
[broken link]
Quote:
Originally Posted by On April 15, 2003 Michael Moorcock
"David Gemmell has, as far as I'm concerned, added himself to a small list of people I actually visualise wearing striped jerseys, flat caps and carrying sacks marked SWAG. Our mutual agent says it's homage. I say that's like coming home and finding someone leaving through the back door with your new telly. 'Nice telly, man,' they say. It's still tealeafing (thieving for American listeners) and Gemmell should know better. I go to enormous trouble not to produce titles or work similar to others. He claims Elric got him writing that stuff. Ho! I say. Others, as I said in Locus magazine recently, make more money nicking from me than I do trying to make something fresh. I should have done him in when I had the chance in Chiswick many years ago. I did a book originally titled Ravenbrand and then called The Dreamthief's Daughter same year as I did (w. Storm Constantine) Silverheart. What does he produce ? Ravenheart. Or was it Silverbrand ? Maybe that's his next. And don't get me started on Grant Morrison, either. As Terry Pratchett says, popular fiction is a big pot, you take some out, you put some in. Some of us put a lot more in than we take out. All best, M"
[Source]
Quote:
Originally Posted by On March 14, 2003 Michael Moorcock
"I find a difference between an homage, an amplification and a straight lift. Lifting is usually done by artists in comics. Alan Moore, Bryan Talbot and others have done riffs on Cornelius which have added to the method -- extended what can be done with the character and technique, if you like. Morrison doesn't have the talent to do that, though he's probably seen the others doing it and thinks that he's doing the same thing. In my view he isn't. I wasn't ready to sue Morrison but I was extremely pissed off with DC for running it. Only after his most blatant rips had appeared did someone at DC read the originals and realise to what degree he had stolen the material."
[Source]
. . . . . .
___________________________________________________________________________
_"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
_For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
_And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
_He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."

Last edited by David Mosley; 11-01-2010 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Sources for quotes added (two only)
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  #11  
Old 11-03-2005, 03:33 PM
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Ewww....

Know I know.

:oops:
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2013, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mosley View Post
Zenith - one of the all-time great comic-strips from 2000AD. I remember the thrill of reading each installment of Book 3 as it came out each week was definitely zarjaz! :)
Zenith may still be zarjaz! but the price that Rebellion are asking for the long-awaited 'Complete Zenith' collection is much, much less so.

Quote:
The Complete Zenith

Written by: Grant Morrison Art by: Steve Yeowell

Price: £100

Pages: 480

Available to buy ONLY from the 2000 AD online shop at shop.2000ADonline.com

Available for pre-order from: 1 July 2013

Published: 1 December 2013

2000 AD is to publish a complete collection of Grant Morrison and Steve Yeowell’s ground-breaking superhero series Zenith for the first time.

The limited edition hardback book will only be available from the 2000 AD online shop. Restricted in 1,000 copies, it will be available for pre-order from 1 July and will be published on 1 December.

Never collected in its entirety before, this is a unique opportunity to own the whole of Morrison’s first superhero series in a never-to-be-repeated format. Zenith is the world’s first “Superbrat” – a vain, self-obsessed, egotistical pop singer whose only interests are girls, partying, and where he is in the charts. Yet he does not realise that there are mighty forces at work which seek to enslave the Earth – and use him to do it!

Starting in 1987, Zenith heralded the arrival of a talent who has since gone on to become one of the biggest names in comic books. A very cynical British take on superheroes, Zenith showcases themes and ideas found throughout Morrison’s later work for Marvel and DC, and demonstrates his remarkable depth and maturity as a writer. Yeowell’s striking black and white artwork gave the strip a vitality and rawness that still shines through today.

The collection will feature all four series, or ‘phases’, the latter two of which have never been reprinted. It will also include later stories by Morrison and Mark Millar.

Both Grant Morrison and Steve Yeowell have been informed of the exciting plans for The Complete Zenith, and this new edition is being handled with the same respect and close attention to detail that 2000 AD gives all its much-praised archive reproductions. The Complete Zenith is one of more than 30 graphic novels that 2000 AD will release in 2013.
Must be noted however that Morrison disputes Rebellion's claim to the title - he maintains there wasn't a signed contract between him and the previous owners of 2000AD, Fleetway Egmont. who originally published Zenith - so online scuttlebutt suggests this is a 'put up or shut up' attempt on the part of Rebellion to see whether Morrison will resort to the courts to protect his (alleged) IP. (Morrison previously blocked Titan Books attempt to publish a earlier collection, which ended up getting pulped.)

See http://comicsbeat.com/zenith-lives/ & http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/05/...irect-for-100/ for more details of the dispute.
___________________________________________________________________________
_"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
_For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
_And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
_He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2013, 12:27 PM
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I will have to admit: I liked Zenith ( read last year ) and I well, I confess I loved Animal Man, Sebastian O was great. All the rest I don't really care for.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:25 PM
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In the same vein of Pádraíg Ó Méalóid's examination of Marvelman, Laura Sneddon is likewise taking a look at the various ownership claims surrounding Zenith ahead of it's (planned) republication by Rebellion for The Beat website:

MAD MENTAL CRAZY! The True Life of the Fabulous Zenith (Part One)
___________________________________________________________________________
_"For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
_For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
_And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
_He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Mosley View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradi
I'm not familiar with Mike Moorcock's views on Grant Morrison. Why does Mike slag on Grant Morrison? I would be interested in reading his criticism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by On June 12, 2003 Michael Moorcock
"Grant Morrison pinched chunks of Jerry Cornelius whole. Apparently he admits that he does this from others. So that's why I say he's a thief. I don't mind my stuff being taken up and run with, as it were, as Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman, who say that's what they do. But I don't think much of people who just pinch stuff."
[broken link]
Quote:
Originally Posted by On April 15, 2003 Michael Moorcock
"David Gemmell has, as far as I'm concerned, added himself to a small list of people I actually visualise wearing striped jerseys, flat caps and carrying sacks marked SWAG. Our mutual agent says it's homage. I say that's like coming home and finding someone leaving through the back door with your new telly. 'Nice telly, man,' they say. It's still tealeafing (thieving for American listeners) and Gemmell should know better. I go to enormous trouble not to produce titles or work similar to others. He claims Elric got him writing that stuff. Ho! I say. Others, as I said in Locus magazine recently, make more money nicking from me than I do trying to make something fresh. I should have done him in when I had the chance in Chiswick many years ago. I did a book originally titled Ravenbrand and then called The Dreamthief's Daughter same year as I did (w. Storm Constantine) Silverheart. What does he produce ? Ravenheart. Or was it Silverbrand ? Maybe that's his next. And don't get me started on Grant Morrison, either. As Terry Pratchett says, popular fiction is a big pot, you take some out, you put some in. Some of us put a lot more in than we take out. All best, M"
[Source]
Quote:
Originally Posted by On March 14, 2003 Michael Moorcock
"I find a difference between an homage, an amplification and a straight lift. Lifting is usually done by artists in comics. Alan Moore, Bryan Talbot and others have done riffs on Cornelius which have added to the method -- extended what can be done with the character and technique, if you like. Morrison doesn't have the talent to do that, though he's probably seen the others doing it and thinks that he's doing the same thing. In my view he isn't. I wasn't ready to sue Morrison but I was extremely pissed off with DC for running it. Only after his most blatant rips had appeared did someone at DC read the originals and realise to what degree he had stolen the material."
[Source]
. . . . . .
Done him in? Does he mean killed him?
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeCrowSeer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Doom
JLA: Earth 2 is terribly, terrible with only Queitly's unique artwork saving it.
I know what you mean. Luckily I picked it up cheap s/hand, because as soon as I started reading it I felt like it was a diluted, poorer cousin of the Marshal Law comics. I know that GM was just trying to create "evil twins" for the JLA, but to me it came across as a faint echo of a much better comic.

Then again, I'm a fan of Giffen-era JLA, which I'm sure most long-term readers think of as a bad joke. So it may just be sour grapes on my part.
Don't worry there are plenty of Giffen era Justice League fans out there myself included. Many comics like X-Force/X-Static and Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol 2 owe Justice League a dept. It's the Red Dwarf of comics.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:44 AM
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Never warmed to the JLA, but Giffen Maguire's run was superb.

Just like Levitz and Giffen's Legion run.

I am still amaze that DC ended the Fourth World setting. It is still staggering how much Jack Kirby resonances through both Marvel and DC universes.
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Old 08-15-2013, 03:44 PM
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Let's not forget that J.M DeMatteis co wrote most of it! And that guy is a stellar writer in my opinion!
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