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12-08-2005, 01:40 AM
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Moonbeam Traveller
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Need help with names of the Black Sword
Hiyas,
I could use a bit of help with the various names that the Black Sword has in the EC books.
I am planning on running some quests soon on the mud I play. One of them will be about the swords and I need at least 8 different names.
(To form the symbol of chaos)
Stormbringer, Mournblade, Ravenbrand, Traitor, Sword o/t Dawn are the ones that come to mind (not sure how to spell Erekose's one from the top of my head) but I am sure there are several other sword names.
Thanks in advance!
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12-08-2005, 01:57 AM
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Eternal Administrator
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Re: Need help with names of the Black Sword
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Originally Posted by Kariya
Stormbringer, Mournblade, Ravenbrand, Traitor, Sword o/t Dawn are the ones that come to mind (not sure how to spell Erekose's one from the top of my head) but I am sure there are several other sword names.
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Stormbringer and Morunblade are the names of two distinct Black Swords, whereas I think Ravenbrand is the name of Stormbringer in Count Ulric von Bek's Germany of the 1940s. The Sword of the Dawn from the Hawkmoon books has never been identified as an 'incarnation' of the Black Sword afaik; in Hawkmoon's world the Black Jewel has that status.
Corum probably has a sword but I don't remember its name (if any) nor if it's supposed to be an aspect of Stormbringer.
But since there millions of black swords, I suppose you could easily make up your own versions.
I suggest you might start by looking at David Gemmell's titles for inspiration. ;)
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_"He drifted through infinite jungles. Brightly coloured jungles in which vast, grotesque birds flew, obscuring the sky. The birds turned on him, their huge beaks wide. Lions prowled, their bodies green and their manes orange, turning into blindingly bright, abstract patterns that were no less terrifying.
_For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
_For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
_And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
_He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."
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12-08-2005, 04:21 AM
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Moonbeam Traveller
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I know that often it's the same sword but a different incarnation or that sometimes it's not quite the same (such as the Sword of the Dawn, or Corum's sword Traitor) but I am not even touching that. As this is a regular mud, not a Eternal champion/Moorcock's multiverse mud, nobody will call me on small discrepancies. I just hope to find 8 names that have been used in the various books and link 8 wielders to it who are looking for the sword.
As a final resort I will have to turn to my own names and versions (Trust me, my character Kariya the Dark Fire wields a blade named Cinta with somewhat familiar properties *blink*) but I hope someone can help me out and give me some more names ;)
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12-08-2005, 06:11 AM
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Eternal Companion
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Not all names for the same black sword, as Dave noted above, or even black swords, but here goes, mixing Moorcock and mythological sources...
• Stormbringer (Elric)
• Mournblade (Yyrkoon)
• The Black Blade (Urlik Skarsol)
• Kanajana (Erekosë)
• Ravenbrand (Ulric)
• Durandana (Roland)
• Caledvwlch (Artos the Celt)
• ClaĂ*omh Solais (Nuada Airgeadlámh) or Tyrfing (Svafrlami)
(Note that Mike lists Roland and Artos as other incarnations of the EC... so the last two aren't too much of a stretch.)
ClaĂ*omh Solais - the Sword of Light - is likely the antithesis of Stormbringer... so I think I might be looking for another symbology than that you're seeking.
Ciao,
Ant
PS. Edited in the light of later posts!
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12-08-2005, 02:36 PM
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Denizen of Moo Uria
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Also Kanajana (Erekose's first sword) and probably Jerry's needlegun. :)
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Best/Mario
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12-08-2005, 10:57 PM
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Moderator
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Re: Need help with names of the Black Sword
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Originally Posted by demos99
Stormbringer and Morunblade are the names of two distinct Black Swords, whereas I think Ravenbrand is the name of Stormbringer in Count Ulric von Bek's Germany of the 1940s.
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Actually, I get the impression from the White Wolf's Son that Ravenbrand is actually Mournblade and not Stormbringer. Thus the two can exist side by side. Not that incarnations of the same thing couldn't exist side by side as Elric has proved many times, and in fact Stormbringer and Mournblade are somewhat incarnations of the same black sword that co-exist as "sister swords" in the same realm. Nonetheless, Stormbringer seems more powerful, and more sentient than either Ravenbrand or Mournblade, and there is also in Ravenbrand an answer to whatever happened to Mournblade after Elric killed Yrkoon.
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12-08-2005, 11:22 PM
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Eternal Companion
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mario
Also Kanajana (Erekose's first sword) and probably Jerry's needlegun. :)
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How could I have overlooked Kanajana?! But... I forget... is that a physically distinct sword from Erekosë's Black Blade?
I did consider Jerry's weapon, which is closer symbolically to Stormbringer than, say, ClaĂ*omh Solais - but its physical manifestation is just too incongruous!
Ciao,
Ant
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12-09-2005, 01:00 AM
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Champion of the Balance
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***Possible spoiler alert - don't read if you haven't read The Dreamthief's Daughter***
Judging by Ravenbrand's refusal to act according to Gaynor's wishes in TDD I think of it as a more evolved/sophisticated version of SB or MB (ref Von Ashe's instructions to Ulric earlier in TDD).
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12-09-2005, 02:07 AM
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Eternal Administrator
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Re: Need help with names of the Black Sword
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Originally Posted by Dead-Air
Quote:
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Originally Posted by demos99
Stormbringer and Morunblade are the names of two distinct Black Swords, whereas I think Ravenbrand is the name of Stormbringer in Count Ulric von Bek's Germany of the 1940s.
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Actually, I get the impression from the White Wolf's Son that Ravenbrand is actually Mournblade and not Stormbringer. |
Ah, could be. I've only just started reading Dreamthief so its early days yet in working out all that's going on.
___________________________________________________________________________
_"He drifted through infinite jungles. Brightly coloured jungles in which vast, grotesque birds flew, obscuring the sky. The birds turned on him, their huge beaks wide. Lions prowled, their bodies green and their manes orange, turning into blindingly bright, abstract patterns that were no less terrifying.
_For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
_For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
_And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
_He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."
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12-09-2005, 08:02 PM
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Moderator
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There was also some buzz about that the last book of the trilogy would be titled Mournblade, but perhaps that was before Michael wrote everything and the content dictated otherwise (?)
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12-10-2005, 12:13 AM
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Guardian of the Grail
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Erekose has Kanajana the Black Sword in 'The Eternal Champion' and switches to 'the black blade' when he becomes Ulrik Scargosil (or a name to that effect) in 'Pheonix in Oblivian.
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12-10-2005, 02:54 AM
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Eternal Companion
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by manmiles
Erekose has Kanajana the Black Sword in 'The Eternal Champion' and switches to 'the black blade' when he becomes Ulrik Scargosil (or a name to that effect) in 'Pheonix in Oblivian.
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Mmm... I was basing my post on a list that I'd compiled some years ago, but checking now in Dragon in the Sword, it is indeed Urlik Skarsol "who bore the Black Blade"... in Phoenix in Obsidian.
Ciao,
Ant
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12-12-2005, 11:12 PM
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Wanderer of the Mittel March
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Urlic Scarsol bears a sword which is called Frost or Frozen Sword, I don't remember exactly (it seems more like Frozen). He's calling it the Black Blade 'cos it is a memory of some other incarnation's (possibly of Elric).
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12-13-2005, 04:17 AM
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Wanderer of the Mittel March
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Re: Need help with names of the Black Sword
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Originally Posted by demos99
Corum probably has a sword but I don't remember its name (if any) nor if it's supposed to be an aspect of Stormbringer.
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He had a sword called Traitor in The Sword an the Stallion, ...
[SPOILER]
... which killed him in the end.
But it didn't seem to be sentient like Stormbringer or other incarnations, it was just manipulated by the Daghdagh's harp.
The spear Bryionak from The Bull and the Spear might be another aspect of the Black Sword, as well as the Hand of Kwll in the first Trilogy...
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12-13-2005, 02:51 PM
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Another Sword Incarnation?
In the Tales of the White Wolf....the collection of short stories that came out in like 1994....there is a tale of Elric meeting a knight who is searching for Excalibur....which after it is found Elric swiftly destroys it with a strike from Stormbringer. Now could Excalibur be an incarnation of Mourneblade or another of Stormbringer....or even crazy yet an incarnation of the Rune Staff itself. What do you all think?
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12-13-2005, 11:10 PM
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Wanderer of the Mittel March
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I disagree that the Hand of Kwll is an incarnation of the Sword (although I've read smth. like that in an article), it seems more to be - yes! smth. like Daghdagh's harp, only it rules the Champion himself, not his weapon. The Hand and the Harp are IMHO like the Chalice in Phoenix in Obsidian.
Concerning Excalibur, I agree to that. It surely is an incarnation of the Black Sword or even it's twin. I don't get only what has the Runestaff to do with that.
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12-14-2005, 01:56 AM
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Eternal Administrator
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Arthur (as 'Artos') is identified by Mike as an incarnation of the EC in some versions of The Eternal Champion, however I'm not sure that I can see Excalibur as being an incarnation of the Black Blade. Although such concepts aren't at the core of Mike's cosmology, Excalibur seems to me to be an essentially 'good' artifact whereas Stormbringer seems intrinsically 'evil'.
___________________________________________________________________________
_"He drifted through infinite jungles. Brightly coloured jungles in which vast, grotesque birds flew, obscuring the sky. The birds turned on him, their huge beaks wide. Lions prowled, their bodies green and their manes orange, turning into blindingly bright, abstract patterns that were no less terrifying.
_For an eternity Allard was alone in an icy limbo where all the colours were bright and sharp and comfortless.
_For another eternity Allard swam through seas without end, all green and cool and deep, where distorted creatures drifted, sometimes attacking him.
_And then, at last, he had reached the real world – the world he had created, where he was God and could create or destroy whatever he wished.
_He was supremely powerful. He told planets to destroy themselves, and they did. He created suns. Beautiful women flocked to be his. Of all men, he was the mightiest. Of all gods, he was the greatest."
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12-14-2005, 05:32 AM
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Eternal Champion
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this is not exactly on topic, but I used to include other author's blades in my games to be sort of in the same class as Stormbringer, but with different properties of course, like I had "Beowulf's" Hrrunting sword in one of the adventures. :lol: (not sure on spelling)
Here is a question that might be a spoiler to some:
Can the other Stormbringer incarnations turn into a demon/humanoid type form?
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12-14-2005, 07:37 AM
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Wanderer of the Mittel March
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What about Urlik's sword in The Quest for Tanelorn?
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12-14-2005, 04:49 PM
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Denizen of Moo Uria
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Maxim
What about Urlik's sword in The Quest for Tanelorn?
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That was the Black Sword. A character mentions recovering it from where it was dropped in Silver Warriors.
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Best/Mario
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